Born To Be Riled

The fight has only just begun! And there are not 6,100 spaces… do you see any motorcycle spaces on the streets of London? All I see is motorcycle BAYS which motorcycles & scooters have to crowd in to, the bays have no security, even though this was supposedly one of the reasons for the “tax” nothing has improved.

If you look at any other European city motorcycles and scooters are encouraged as a means to get around, they pollute less than cars, journey times are faster, they take up a little amount of space. Parking should be free and plentiful, and it should be possible to park on the pavement without causing an obstruction, or in void spaces, just like they do in the rest of Europe. That way there would be more space for cars to park.

It makes perfect sense to encourage motorcycles and scooters, and not penalise them, because the truth is this tax is about “demand management” which to me says.. that Westminster Council want to discourage the use of this form of transport, which a lot of people are turning to, getting on their scooter, because of the awful over-priced public transport system.

It costs £5 a week to fill my scooter, that’s Mon to Sun plus I can travel anywhere at any time and I am exempt from the Con Charge (2 wheels don’t congest), it costs £40 a week to take the train (as I used to) how much does a car cost to fill up for a week?

The fight has only just begun Westminster Council… watch out! You cannot stop direct action, if people have been ignored.

Check out http://www.notobikeparkingtax.com to support the campaign against Westminster Council and Danny Chalkley or check out their forum http://forum.notobikeparkingtax.com where there is loads of discussions on the issue.

To Josef and others,

This ignores the increase in noise and air pollution which is the direct result of an increase in motorcycle use.

Just get someone else to start up your beast while you stand behind at the exhaust outlet . . ..

Hilary,

I do not ride a “Beast” so there goes your stereotyping… I in fact ride a little 125cc scooter which gets me around town very cheaply and efficiently, does not congest and does not make a racket as you suggest.. it is very quiet as are many modern scooters (which also have to comply to the same emissions regulations as cars) so before you go generalising us on our “beasts” please spare a thought for those that actually ride and don’t congest the public transport system.

And before you say go get a bicycle… scooters are a great solution for people that live that little bit further out of town to get in to work quickly an efficiently.. I would not hesitate to get a bicycle if I lived within 30 minutes ride of my workplace.

In fact I am an avid cyclist as well as a scooterist.

When there is a tube strike, when the train is delayed, who are the ones that get to the office on-time without fail.. the people that ride 2 wheels, be it pedalled or powered.

Scooters are a vital part of London’s transport mix and should be encouraged and supported.

All new motorcycles conform to extremely strict noise and emissions tests. You don’t notice the ones that whisper past with little more than steam coming out of their exhausts. You only notice the ones that are a bit noisier than others and those past their prime. But those bikes are being used because they’re all the riders can afford. Not everyone can go out and buy a Toyota Prius and look down their nose at others less fortunate.

Most motorcyclists I know who commute into town live out in the sticks – priced out of the London housing market. They couldn’t possibly cycle in but are doing the next best thing (environmentally) in helping to reduce fuel use and congestion. And how does Westminster council repay them for lightening the load on its streets? By making them pay to park. Can someone, anyone, just tell me why is it that EVERY other local authority IN THE WORLD encourages the use of two-wheelers but Westminster has decided to ignore thousands of objections and make them pay ?

As for those who are painting the parking signs, making them invalid, well.. that’s what happens when you don’t listen to the people who you’re supposed to be serving – more power to them (and less to the council.)

Josef,

It’s true. I once saw an electric scooter in Soho Square. A slim, clean, silent, gliding machine of great beauty.

I do apologize for calling them beasts. (Some of them, however . . ..)

And I do sympathize.

As will I sympathize when you or your co-motorcyclists need, um, medical treatment after all that pollution exposure through the air intakes (AKA nostrils).

What about their lung treatments/transplants (not an easy op)?

Sometimes heart as well (euwww)?

What about their rehabilitation?

What about their lifelong immuno-suppressive drugs after transplant?

Do they have or are they planning to have children?

What about their tiny little air intakes?

Only saying . . ..

PS: I think Westminster are planning (or have planned) to issue quiet, non-polluting scooters to their work teams. Now there’s a beautiful initiative.

Because i refuse to pay this tax I now have to park my bike way up in Camden. So I use the bike a lot less than I used to as it’s now easier to jump in the car, which I only had for trips over Dartmoor and Exmoor. I am only one of many that have had to make the choice between the car or the bike, well done Westminster.

But I wonder how many car drivers would like to come back to their cars only to find it jammed in by two other cars, causing them to have to ask friends to help them lift their car out of the bay. Or how many car drivers would like to regularly discover their car had it’s wing mirrors snapped off by other car users trying to squeeze into overcrowded spaces, space which you now had to pay for.

That’s what it’s like if you ride a scooter or motorbike in Westminster now.

But the icing on the cake is knowing that the Councillors who voted for this stealth tax, also voted themselves city wide free parking permits for their own cars.

Hilary.

are you a council worker for westminster? have you ridden into westminster on the most effective transport system AKA the motorcycle?

i have been riding into westminster since i was 16 to work at my uncles shop. now i could not do the same thing as i would now require a credit card and hours of patience.. the pay by phone experiance is fine in a car where you can sit in warmth and comfort with privacy so no one can hear or see you divulge sensetive information.

Most modern motorcycles are fuel efficent and quiet.. why would anyone stand behind ANYTHING that is starting up is questionable!

your motives seem quite questionable as electric scooters STILL polute as do hybrids as they draw power from a dirty power source..

as for westminster introducing electric vehicle in to it’s fleet of GAS GUZZLERS is far to little to late.. most councilors i know arrive in modified jaguars for their saftey which can barely make 2 mpg… i suggest you think of your responses before you post them as all you have said so far is Green party rehtoric.. which has long been a source of heated debate from intellectuals due to its shall we say… innaccuracies!

Hi Hilary,

I really hate to annoy you here, but electric scooters are not as environmentally sound as you believe. They take an awful lot of very nasty chemicals to produce, more even than a normal motorcycle. They also cause added poluttion by needing to be recharged (Though admittedly not a lot). They may be zero emissions at the point of use, but they most certainly are not zero emissions overall.

Until a high quality electric scooter with a low enough price and a high enough range is created, people will not have an option to use one. I have a car, a motorcycle and I used to cycle in London all the time. Currently I work 17 miles away from where I live, and the cheapest and most environmentally friendly way to get there is…you guessed it…by motorcycle.

Given the choice between a motorcycle or a car, whose fumes would you rather breathe in? Because I cannot take public transport to work – it costs almost £10 per day just to get to work, and takes over 2 hours – and that leaves me with only those two options. Ans as for the transplants and immuno-suppressants, well, I’m already facing that in the next 15 years because of a kidney defect. And frankly, I’d prefer to spend my time as a (currently) fit and healthy young adult enjoying myself rather than being stuck on an overcrowded tube, or being preached to by people who really don’t know what they are talking about.

way to go temp!! =-p
see you at the next meet!

‘intellectual debate: we all ‘intellectualize’ (it’s commonly known as thinking).

‘am I a council worker’ Nah. But Councils (and the GLA) do work for us. Just a point: do you think they might just be working for our health as well?

‘(electric bikes) take an awful lot of very nasty chemicals to produce’ Mmmm: hadn’t thought of that. Good point.

‘draw power from a dirty power source’ Nah. At the point of energy production, the power station, you can easily regulate emissions (after all, you know where they all are).

‘why would anyone stand behind ANYTHING that is starting up’ Quite.

People on foot, including babies and children in pushchairs; schoolchildren, do this day in and day out because of the way vehicles are parked, exhaust to the footway. Mmmmm . . .

‘Inaccuracy’ Well the volatiles from (many) motorcycles are demonstrably higher than from other vehicles (some of you can probably do the chemistry on that one: it involves benzene). And I’m afraid that is not an inaccuracy.

‘prefer to spend my time . . .’ I completely agree with you on that one, Templar, and I’m sorry you think I don’t seem to know what I’m talking about. It’s your choice.

Over and out.

Hi Hilary,

I’d just like to take issue with a couple of things you have said there.

You claim the councils work for us. My recent experience would cast doubt on this. I would argue that most councillors (As like many Politicians) are in fact more likely to be working for themselves or for other masters. For references in this, please Google “Peter Mandleson” and “David Geffen”, and refer to the American Film Producer’s input into the new “Digital Economy Bill”.

You ask that they might be working for our health. Nice thought. If they were that interested in our health they wouldn’t be using powerful cars to transport themselves around, as I can assure you they are. I also firmly believe they have higher priorities than your health or mine. What evidence do you have that they are working for our health?

You state that you can “Easily regulate emissions” of power stations. I don’t think that is true, and even less so if you think it is because “you know where they are”. I hate to break it to you, but pollution MOVES, and much of our power comes from coal fired stations, the most polluting kind of power station.

Volatiles from SOME bikes are higher, as indeed are particulate emissions, but not all, and by no means the majority. The bikes that are oft-quoted in this are the extreme minority – 2 stroke vehicles – rather than the majority. Also, the measurements don’t take into account the fact that bikes spend significantly less time stuck in traffic with their engines idling, as cars do. Furthermore, Motorcycles are currently rated at Euro3 emissions, with cars at Euro5, but Motorcycles have to get to Euro5 within the next 5 years. At that point they will have the same or fewer emissions PLUS will have lower fuel consumption, and will emit less while stuck in traffic. Why penalise the transport of the future? It’s like penalising Electric vehicles because of the various chemicals that are used to make the batteries – it is very backwards thinking, typical of councils.

My final thought would be this: A recent traffic survey showed that 60% of all car journeys are single occupancy, and 89% of all car journeys that are commutes to and from work are single occupancy. Imagine how much quicker life would be if more people took bikes. And – as I’ve shown – less time spent in traffic = less pollution, for both bikes and cars, to say nothing of the reduced fuel consumption.

It is indeed my choice to deal with people I think know what they are talking about. Up until your last post (Which, I will admit, seemed much better informed than an previous one, which did come across as a little “Smelly Hippy/Tree Hugger”) there was no indication you knew anything of any substance. Now I will admit you know a little about emissions, but apparently not a lot about politicians.

Hi Hilary,

It does seem a bit like you’re being ganged up on and I want to assure you that’s not my intention in-fact I’d like to say that I can respect you for voicing your opinion but also listening to what others say and accepting some of the merits of their case.

I can’t fault you that petrol driven motorbikes & scooters create pollution at the point of use, they are for the most part more efficient than cars, especially when you factor that in the city centre cars sit in traffic while bikes make progress. I believe they are even more efficient than trains as I recall that approx. 8 years ago Greenpeace made a statement that it if you took everyone off a train that was full into their own car it would be more environmentally friendly in the cars than they would have been on the train.

However your case that bikers will be a burden to the NHS as a result of what they inhale is not something I’d agree with. As a cyclist I was actually more at risk of this than as a motorcyclist as I was trying to inhale large volumes of air (owing to exhaustion from riding 15 miles) to enable me to carry on. On the motorbike though I can wear a mask that helps filter the air (on the push bike it restricts my breathing to much) but also I don’t get close to other vehicles exhausts as that would mean I wouldn’t have enough space to stop in an emergency or to go round them should they stop and block my path. As such I am no more at risk than a pedestrian and less at risk than a cyclist from illness resulting from inhalation of pollutants.

Those who are at serious risk though are those using public transport, specifically the London Underground. It has been shown by University College London in research they conducted in 2001 that the quality of air in the underground network is 73 times worse than that on the streets of London. In fact they concluded that a 20 min tube journey had the same health impact as smoking a cigarette.

http://www.healthinparliament.org.uk/lungd/air_pollution_brief.doc

Regards
Dave

Hi Hilary. I’m a biker opposed to this stealth tax as well but boy do I admire your tenacity, I just wish you were on our side!

You made some good points but the guys here have, in my opinion, countered every one very well. I know I am biased, I don’t apologise for it.

You made lots of points about lungs and hearts and stuff and here I am in agreement with you. However, the particulates on the underground system can be much worse than above ground. One UCL report compared 20 minutes on the northern line is equal to smoking a cigarette! Not CO2 or Ozone issues but certainly health issues. So the bikers above ground, probably unknowingly, are getting better health despite the beastly emissions.
(http://www.bartlett.ucl.ac.uk/web/ben/Tube.htm)

Your comment about them working for us is laughable if you knew what we knew, honestly. Those of us that have read nutsville dot com and heard the councilors lie, openly, know different.

Keep fighting your corner, you’re doing a great job and you’re very erudite too