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At the end of last month we posted about a parent's groups who were protesting over cyclists' behaviour at red lights in Stockwell.
It's always a controversial topic this one, and the comments we received on the post confirmed that. Andrea from the fantastic Velorution (our favourite cycling blog) said:
Rather than complaining about cyclists running red lights, why doesn't Londonist promote a campaign to change the law so that red lights become equivalent to yield signs for cyclists? You will certainly see more respectful cycling.
Now she's expanded on that view on the Veloriution site with this post, which itself is a reaction to an article by Matt Seaton in the Guardian recently calling for cyclists to stop at red lights.
We cyclists need to put our own house in order: if we want to be treated with respect by other road users, we should start earning it.
Seaton's article and the Lambeth protests have led to the establishment of the Stop At Red campaign where cyclists are asked to electronically sign a pledge to put the brakes on when they see a red light.
Andrea's reaction to this?
It is dispiriting seeing intelligent people waste their time on a non-issue. It is disappointing to see people in the trade with such an inferiority complex that they feel the need to pander to the whims of the motor lobby. It reminds me of Blair brown-nosing Bush before the Iraq invasion...... rephrase the discourse in terms of peace and safety. No more red/green but the white of peaceful co-existence and that requires acceptance that
- the most vulnerable need most consideration, and
- if one chooses to use a vehicle that is a threat to others, his/her rights of movement should be curtailed, according to the threat the vehicle poses.Some cyclists do not show consideration towards pedestrians; many others do not always stop at red lights. The first group is asocial and needs to be dealt with. Irked about the latter? Just change the law to say that cyclists have to stop and yield at red lights, like in Utah.
Personally we always stop at red lights becasue we cycle through areas like Vauxhall Cross and Trafalgar Square and we don't want to die yet. But what do you think, is this argument ever going to get a happy ending?
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but sometimes I need to run the red, if there is a massive lorry on my right and I have an inkling it's about to turn left and squash me... I need to get out of the way and somewhere the driver can see me... I just don't want to die yet either
The car lobby have been very canny in detracting from the fact that the cycling lane provision in the capital is appalling, if not downright dangerous, by focusing on this red herring of an argument about cyclists running red lights.
Yes, there are a minority of cyclists who run red lights dangerously, but to listen to some of the comments, you'd think London was overrun by human-powered death machines.
My own experience is that far more cars (and buses and lorries) run red lights and ignore zebra crossings than cyclists and, to be quite frank, I fancy my chances of survival a lot more if I'm hit by a bike travelling at most, what, 20mph than a tonne or more of metal most probably travelling over the speed limit.
@ping@: fair enough about the lorries, but the casual attitude I see towards red lights from cyclists every day is completely exasperating, as 99% of the time, the red-jumper is in no danger whatsoever, but is rather creating danger for other road users through his/her impatience.
@Ken: I agree, but just because motorists do it too shouldn't mean that the cycling community's sins should be ignored.
The real scandal is that in a country which is supposed to be moving towards an integrated transport policy to reduce emissions, curb obesity and all the rest, more support isn't given to cycling - see this great article by Christian Wolmar for more details ...
I'm with both the above. Although I always slow down and check the road carefully, I run red lights quite regularly for two main reasons:
(a) As ping said, being in front of the bumper or squashed into the side of the traffic at the lights when they change is stupidly more dangerous than being 20 yards ahead, and...
(b) It's knackering trying to get anywhere if you have to brake and get your momentum back up constantly - non-cyclists have NO idea how hilly London actually is...
I know (b) is our own problem, but with the load that cyclists take off public transport, the roads and the environment, I think many of us feel that we are frankly entitled to a bit of leeway. Obviously, if you hit or narrowly miss a pedestrian you're cycling dangerounsly, but otherwise, what's the problem. This Yield idea will never get implemented, but it's the way most responsible cyclists behave anyway.
I'll also feel more like obeying the laws on lights when a few other laws are enforced a bit better, e.g. driving in cycle lanes, parking in cycle lanes, contractors leaving bloody great holes in cycle lanes, and the government/GLC start to implement real pro-cycling policies.
Rant over...
Jo, I wasn't suggesting we ignore the fact that some cyclists do break the law, and dangerously so. I just think we need to get some perspective on this. As a pedestrian, I am endangered far more by motor transport than pedal power. If we're going to jump around complaining about cyclists, let's just put it into the context of the danger of all traffic.
I walk a lot round different areas of London and drive occasionally, maybe once a week. I've never cycled in London and cyclists are clearly massively less dangerous to pedestrians than car drivers, as mentioned above. I also have a lot of sympathy with people who don't clog the road in unnecessary car journeys.
However, the percentage of cyclists who run red lights and ignore pedestrian crossings is massively higher than the percentage of car drivers. I've even been hit by a cyclist on a traffic-lighted pedestrian crossing, having patiently waited for the traffic to stop and the green man to appear - then *thud*. Didn't do me much harm, but didn't give a very positive impression of cyclists either.
Let's be honest, anyone who walks around London a lot will know that a significant percentage of cyclists flout the rules; and a good proportion of them are quite arrogant about doing it. I don't think it's a life or death issue, and it's probably human nature - if car drivers were equally manoeuvrable, didn't have number plates for easy identification, then more of them would do the same. But I don't think its excusable with talk about cycle lanes or whatever - no road user is omniscient and the lights et al. are there to make things more predictable and safe for the least vulnerable. Anyone who ignores them is undermining our collective respect for the whole system, whether they're cyclists or car drivers. I think that's what annoys many people.
I have been commuting through Central London on my bike for 2 years. Allowing cyclists to yield through red lights is a very bad idea. Maybe it wouldn't be an issue at the moment but what happens if the cycling population doubles or triples? There will be scores of cyclists blocking intersections because they are trying to avoid the other cyclists. What about the pedestrians at the cross-walks? A cyclist approaching a red-light is not able to see whether the pedestrians have a green walk signal or not. Disaster.
Bikes, mopeds, motorcycles and cars should all follow the same rules. From my experience, my fellow cyclists are the worst offenders. I have had many more near misses from other cyclists than with cars. If I had a pound for everytime I yelled at another cyclist for running a red light when I had a green light, I could buy that new messanger bag I have been eyeing in the shop.
And don't get me started on pedestrians... all I can is you better make sure you look both ways before setting onto the street with mobile phone at your ear or the iPod blaring.
Ok, lets set a few facts out first - I use four different methods of transportation to get around London - walking, the tube, buses and my car - yes my cycling friends, a Car!! Worse still, it’s a 4x4 with a 4.7L V8 engine - a fact that I proudly advertise with a personalised licence plate.
Right - so now you have an instant distaste for me because I'm no doubt killing you and harming the environment but allow me to differ. I suffer no discomfort or irritation as a result of the motor vehicles in London aside from sitting in traffic watching the minutes tick by (for what it's worth my daily journey into central London is by tube, not by car). I have never come close to being hit by a car, van, bus or lorry either as a pedestrian or another road user. In my 23 years on this planet I have remained perfectly safe. Within the past six months however I have been hit twice by cyclists running red lights at pedestrian crossings and have had a few near misses with them in my car as they weave in and out of the traffic with an apparent disregard for other road users. As to being told, "look both ways" etc. I can only say that I do but am I to wait if I see a cyclist approaching even though I have the right of way? Looking may avoid me being hit, but it doesn't solve the wrong of cyclists breaking the rules of the road.
A very close friend of mine is both a driver and a cyclist. To boot he is also a commercial pilot. Not once has he demonstrated foolishness or unlawfulness behind the wheel of his car or at the controls of an aircraft. Strangely however he takes near-pride in running red lights on his bike.
To those who complain of motor vehicles running red lights I can only say that I have not witnessed such activity once in the past year whereas I have lost count of the number of cyclists I have seen engaging in such activity.
So to bring this full circle - in the long run, perhaps through my choice of car I am contributing to environmental damage - I accept that - and when motor manufacturers start offering more choice in environmentally friendly vehicles I will be the first to catch on - however, whether I sit behind the wheel of a 4.7L V8 Jeep, an 8.3L V10 Dodge Ram or a Toyota Prius I will always ensure that the way I drive is in the best interests of the safety of myself and others.
Make it law so that I don't have to go out armed with a brick. It's tiring carrying that thing around you know just for the three or four cyclists I have to maim with it per day.