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10 January 2011 | News, Transport | By: BethPH

Oyster Penalty Fares Hit Millions

Oyster Penalty Fares Hit Millions

It’s not been a great month for rail commuters – we’ve had tube fare rises, rail fare increases and now fines for not touching in or out out with Oyster are up to £6.50.

Sure, we’ve all forgotten to touch out now and again, especially on lines like the DLR where you don’t always have to go through a barrier and we know it’s our own stupid fault, but what happens when the barriers aren’t working, or they’re open, or simply not there? Commuters going through Stratford between the National Rail platforms and the Jubilee line last summer may remember the palava that ensued when all the Oyster card readers were removed from the concourse, meaning that anyone coming off National Rail was forced to climb the stairs to touch in on the other side of the station before going back to the Jubilee line platform.

TfL say that National Rail companies are failing to install barriers at many stations while the companies themselves say they will only install barriers where it represents ‘value for money’ but since they get to keep the fine incurred, it obviously works in their interest not to install them and rely on readers.

London TravelWatch say that Oyster users should always contact the Oyster helpline if they believe they’ve been incorrectly charged, but in practice it’s not quite that easy. Having been incorrectly fined after touching out at a non-functional barrier at Canary Wharf only a couple of weeks after being again incorrectly fined when a member of TfL staff let us back through the gate when a line suspension occurred while waiting on the platform, we found the Oyster helpline less then, well, helpful. The first refund was given with surprising ease, but the second request was more troublesome, with the operator informing us that they ‘only ever give us the benefit of the doubt and refund once’. Leaving aside the implication that they appear to consider more than one refund request inherently dishonest, this fails to account for barriers which as mentioned before, don’t work, are open or missing.

Still, the sobering thought that last year penalty charges for failing to touch in or out were in excess of £56m - which is quite a jump on 2008’s £32m – is enough to make us double check the rules.

Have you been hit with an incorrect penalty fare? Did you claim a refund? Tell us in the comments.

Photo by RachelH_

BethPH

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richwill

Only where it's 'value for money'? I suppose that's the nearest we'll ever get to an admission that money is the only thing they value, they might as well say 'only where it's value for money F*CK THE PASSENGERS ooh sorry customers

Lewis

I found it particularly "amusing" when I got back to my home station on Christmas Eve to find the barriers were open and switched off. So, that's a Zone 1-? maximum penalty fare off my Oyster, I assume. Happy F*cking Christmas from TfL.

I didn't actually know that you could phone and get it refunded - but as the average call to the Oyster line takes 11 minutes, and from my phone that would cost £2.25 (0845 number) I think I'll just add it to the festering pile of "reasons why every last TfL employee will be first against the wall when the revolution comes".

markle

I had the joy recently when changing between National Rail and DLR at Greenwich. Signs at Greenwich station advise everyone boarding a DLR there to touch in. I did so. The clever Oyster system thusly assumed that I'd ended my journey there, so when I alighted at my final DLR station, I was treated as having 'entered' the system, thus generating an incomplete journey / penalty.

My local tube station refunded it to me quite painlessly, but I also emailed to complain about the poor / confusing signage. No response from TfL.

Jane

I too have been affected by this issue in the past. £6.50 is very steep. What about tourists who don't understand the system as well as they might? As to the 0845 number, use the 0203 alternative...here it is...0203 031 9337.

Neil B

In Prague, there is one ticket for 20 minutes of travel. It costs about a pound. You validate it when you want to start it and then walk on and off buses and trams and the metro. Occasionally you're asked to present a valid ticket for your journey. This has happened to me once in about 20 visits to the city.

A month-long ticket is about £20 and because it's so reasonably-priced most people buy them. Once I own this type of pass, then there is no swiping, no tickets, no delay, no barriers. I can use any public transport in the city at any time. Occasionally I will be challenged to provide a valid pass. This is a minor inconvenience.

What a civilised country. I guess it's an echo of their communist past that they're more about helping you live than about taking as much money off you as possible.

Dantfl

I have had two disputes with them over the penalty fare. The first took over two years to resolve (in my favour, finally), and the second is ongoing (several months in).

The system is dramatically weighted in their favour. They profit from their own failure to implement a logical and robust system. Unfortunately, they are a monopoly and cannot be questioned.

Peterkin

I recently made a journey from Brixton to Stratford to go on National Rail. On returning to Brixton I touched out. Unfortunately, the barriers didn't register my journey, even though they let me through (the panel went red, but the gates still opened).

When I went to go to work on the Monday morning my Oyster wouldn't let me through the gates. The TfL employee checked, and told me I was in debit to my account. This made no sense - I have a zone 1-2 travel card (costing me £1100 a year) and Pay as You Go cash on my account too. After a lengthy queue at Brixton it turned out they'd handsomely charged me for "not touching out". The woman at the counter was incredibly rude and unhelpful, simply repeating 'Madam, if you can't show me you touched out, I can't help you'.

Well, how was I to prove I'd touched out as the barriers didn't record my journey?

I left angry, £10 lighter (having relented and topped up my Oyster card to get in credit again) and late for work (having queued for 20 minutes and argued for 5).

MH1984

I have forgotten to touch out on many occasions where there is not barrier, but a standalone oyster reader. Each time I have called the oyster helpline and they have applied the refund with no problems....
I dont see this as a penalty fare, its the way the oyster system works, where it takes of the maximum fare when you touch in, and then adjusts it depending on where ou touch out. If you dont touch out, it doesnt know where you finished your journey so the maximum fare remains. Its up to the user to ensure the touch out...Anoying, but thats how it works!

Alla Yeliseyeva

i have been charged numerous times as i work late shifts and often catch the last train going south from london br. i touch in at london br only to find my home station to be completely closed with no access to the gate. i have claimed refunds 7 times this year. and those charges were always on top of my daily cap! how ridiculous is that?

murphyz

I do make claims when I feel I've been incorrectly charged, and have received cheques multiple times for the erroneous charge; this is whether on the tube, rail or bus (and I do make the point of cashing an 80p cheque just for the point of doing so).

The cap has also been raised to £7.70 now - I sent an email to TFL after someone mentioned towards the end of last year that the auto-top up amount was increasing on Oyster from £5 to £8 but they (TFL) made no mention of it to me; about 6 weeks later I received the following:

"Thank you for your email about the changes to our Auto-top up service. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in our response.

As you may already be aware, the Auto top-up threshold has increased from £5 to
£8. This is the first increase that has taken place since 2005 and is not linked to inflation. This is being applied as a standard across the system so customers will not be able to opt out.

This increase is mainly to ensure that customers have sufficient money on their Oyster card to pay for their intended journey.

For example, as of 2 January 2011 the maximum fare has been increased to £7.70. A maximum fare is charged when the Oyster system cannot work out where customers have travelled as a result of customers failing to touch in or out correctly. The new threshold of £8 will ensure that customers have sufficient credit to travel even in the event of this fare being applied.

Please note that any money topped up onto an Oyster card belongs to the customer rather than Transport for London. We do not hold this money in a bank account so we do not make any interest or profit from this service. This money remains on your Oyster card until you use it to make a journey.

In addition, the Auto top-up service is to ensure customers do not have to queue up and wait long periods of time to top-up their cards when they fall low on credit. Auto Top-up can also be cancelled at any time and the balance remaining on your card is refundable upon requested.

Please contact us if you need any further help."

Andy C

What I hate about Oyster is that the onus is always on the customer. To check journey charges. To check the complex pricing. To check top-ups. To check refunds. To check absolutely everything.

I don't use it as I simply don't trust the system and I don't trust TfL. However, last week, I topped up my wife's Oyster card on the Internet with £40. Because she's an occasional traveller, she didn't use it until yesterday when she discovered, inevitably, that the £40 credit wasn't on the card. This was despite receiving an email confirming the 'transaction'.

Why wasn't the credit on the card ? Because you have to 'validate your order at a station within 7 days'. Now it's not an order - it's a top-up. Why do I have to 'validate' an 'order' at a station ? Why isn't it handled like topping up a PAYG phone. You top-up £40 and your balance is immediately increased by £40.

Now, of course, if TfL only debited my card when the order was validated, that would be fine as I wouldn't have been charged. But they don't - they debit the funds immediately. I wonder why that is.

Apparently, the reason for this 7 day rule; machines at station can only store 7 days history. How on earth this relates to top-ups made on the Internet Web site isn't entirely clear.

So another phone call to get the £40 refunded and a complaint to Trading Standards.

The whole system is poorly designed and implemented and about as unfriendly to the customer as it possibly could be.

BlahBlahDoh

Similar to Peterkin above, I swiped my card and it let me through the barrier at Warren St, but something must have been wrong as it took £6.50 when I swiped out minutes later at Waterloo. This was my third journey, and despite starting the day with over £10 credit I was now -0.10 and unable to get home. Staff told me to call the helpline, but to expect to be on hold for 20 minutes at my expense. No thanks. I went and hired a Boris bike instead. Claimed it back the next day, but was told "only your word for it" and given a lecture. Surely it's clear from the pattern of behaviour, or even the timings, that no fare avoidance has taken place. Surely the daily cap should apply in all circumstances? Surely I've been cheated, inconvenienced, not provided with the service paid for, and deserve an apology? As I said to their obnoxious staff: "The customer's always wrong, eh?"

Jewlz

I was hit with an incorrect penalty fare in september of this year ( 2011), i traveled during " peak hours" from Victoria which unfortunately for me meant that the gates were left open and the little display which tells you to seek assistance when you don't touch in properly was totally blank ( dead). i got to my destination and received a fine. despite the fact that my oyster card made physical contact with all readers.

After i received my fine, i touch out and was charged £6.50 which weirdly TFL were more then happy to reimburse.

In my appeal i sent audio and email proof that Victoria do leave the gates open at specific times London Travel watch and IRCAS still say its my fault. even though London travel watch have posted about a similar scenario in this article.

I feel like cutting my oyster card up and never using it again.

Verdict- Robbed.

Paul

Mantarnia, where were you able to ask for a refund on-line? I've spent ages looking all over the tfl website and can't find anywhere to do it.

sick@ofbeingrippedoff.com

They basically try to trick people into paying fines for doing nothing wrong. While fare dodgers get away with it all the time. Do London a favour and vote with your feet - literally - and don't use any TFL 'services' unless absolutely necessary. I'm so disgusted after an unfair fine that I run/walk to and from work now rather than having to use their Cr@p services, which are usually delayed and make me late for work anyway. They forget that we are paying CUSTOMERS - and we don't have to use them if we don't want to.

londona729

I love TfL but am disappointed at the fact they haven't tried to learn from MTR(the Hong Kong rail operator that makes a profit!)

IHATEZIONS

TFL always looking for the best way how to STEAL Londoners money by fining them unfairly then pass the stolen fines to the basically fatcats owned companies claims that 'improving the tube'.

plus these tfl robbers also applying two way fare system if you do not want to use your oyster card then the normal paper ticket charged higher for the same travel. one way or other they steal your money, either you make a mistake by not touching properly or their faulty machine reader or higher fee for the classich paper tickets

carla

I have been fined, by inspector accusing me of using a freedom pass i showed my oyster and they were demanding the freedom pass, police was called and the bus was on stand, i went through search including my bag and as i stted i did not have one, I was then fined and requested to pay a fine and i disagreed because i did not travel bus was on stand and i was accused and had police called on searched in public and now im taken to court, How can i defend my self especially with what law.

Ann Crutwell

I am a new user of oyster. I got fined twice in 1 weekend. Once at waterloo, because I thought I was checking into the underground only to find out I was checking out of overground. No obvious information for visitors. Girl in front had same problem. Sorted that, then 2 days later a malfunctioning barrier at East Finchley caused me to get a 2nd fine. Got that back too, but lost my capping, so I am not very happy about the overcharge.

Amber

TFL can compete for the greediest and creepiest mafias successfully. They robbed meoff £ 40 as ggetting £80 where they initially asked to pay £40.

They fined my child for using each other's cards for £40 and if I don't pay within a week then I'll have to pay £80. They also gave me 1 week to appeal.

I submitted appeal and asked for reassurance that this will not considerd time lapse and if I don't get the appeal in my favour I would have to pay the original penalty of £40.
I received reply that my case will be on hold till the assessment of appeal. After a weekI was informed my appeal is refused and I need to pay £80 or face consequences including prosecution. This all rubbish for a child's mistake for which we both asked pardon in writing.
when I wrote reply with all correspondence attached I got a mocking response of some ill mannered representative reminding me of consequences again with such humiliating manner.
I have paid the money at the moment but I really don't won't to give £40 of my hard earned money to these rotten people.
Can anyone direct me how to claim refund for my money?

Shah Ismail

I had a problem while travelling from Wandsworth Town to Waterloo. The barriers open up after 5pm (I guess). So I touched my Oyster Card at the barrier at Wandsworth Town but I didn't see whether it beeped 'red' or 'green'. Since I was low on my Oyster Card credit therefore the closed barriers at Waterloo didn't let me pass. The station master took my Oyster Card, checked my travel history, asked for my ID, confirmed my ID details over the phone with someone else, and gave me a penalty ticket of £20.

Now, I can appeal at ircas.co.uk and ask them to check the CCTV at Wandsworth Town to confirm my narrative but is there any better suggestion?